;-)

It is so important to respect the opinions of others and yes, I certainly believe church and state should be separate. There is a big difference between state sponsored religion and discussing the alternative that some people believe that a creator created the universe.

There are multiple theories for where human beings came from … why not share them all? Atheism and theism are two sides of the religious coin — why should atheism be allowed and theism not.

I did not ask for this debate, I was twittered into it.

I believe that all people deserve respect no matter their opinion. I do not profess to be an expert on this topic.

I do however, know my belief system to be true but I respect the rights of others to have their own.

What bothers me most is the way that both sides of the issue seem to be painting one another. It is my job to love the people God put here, His job to judge.

I don’t think this debate is going to change the minds of anyone here — pretty much every commenter has made up their own mind here and none of us professing to be experts, the only point I would like to leave here is to ask those who have written to take a look back at what they’ve said about the other side and read it as if it was said to them.

The total lack of respect and condescension is amazing. Let’s agree to disagree and move on to some things that we do agree on.

I have learned some great things from Pete on Open Source and he helped me out on my Mom’s computer problem — I appreciate it very much. He is very knowledgeable about open source software and this particular debate has been going on since the time of Socrates and before. So, let’s move on, but let’s remember to treat others with respect when we disagree, I feel like I’m back in elementary school here.

As you so well stated, no one really knows the creation of the universe. I believe it is fair to state all theories and you know what, I think that even includes the theory that is growing in favor w/ some scientists of alien origin.”

OMG. Can someone please tell this poor lady that evolution is a theory that explains the origins of biodiversity on earth. It has nothing to say about the creation of the universe!

One other thing: the relationship between theories and facts. A theory is a self-consistent collection of ideas which explain facts. We make observations. We check those observations until we can be reasonably certain they are facts. Then we explain those facts using a theory. The theory explains the facts, and the facts reinforce the theory. If at some point the theory proves flawed in explaining new facts, we modify the theory. In this way, theories are organic and in a constant state of growth themselves.

I get so tired of repeatedly explaining this sort of thing to people who supposedly should know better. I do not know Ms. Vicki Davis, but from how she writes and speaks about herself I can conclude she is an educated person. Educated people have no excuse.

All I can say is, try harder.

We’ve already lost most of our industries to cheaper third world labour. We’re heading into a recession, and morons like this want to ruin the last great thing we’ve got: our very integrity and the respect of other nations.

This isn’t about a lone creationist let loose in the public education system. This is about the presence of such people in the public education system.

I guess I am simply happy that I am alive. Been close to the other side. I believe this debate will be rather pointless if we do not collectively figure out a way to save the planet that give us life in the first place, no matter whom or what created it, and provided the underlying platform for these notions of origin, life and creation to arise. Food riots, climate change, drought, melting ice-caps. It worries me.

If we all depart along with a dead planet what will happen to our debates, theories and beliefs then?

Best wishes, John.

“Y’know, what gets us faith folks so riled is when the [...] crowd starts treating us like we’re stupid because we believe.”

I don’t care if you believe. Whatever floats your boat. What I’m treating as “stupid” is the claim that ID isn’t creationism/monotheism in disguise, but a “scientific alternative” to evolution. Want to stand behind that? Then I’ll shed no tears when you interpret my words as a personal attack on your cognitive capabilities.

This guy believes. And while I may not share his beliefs, he’s apparently a lot smarter than several persons (myself included) we’ve heard in this post’s comments.

As for the legitimacy of creationism as a theory? That’s for all of you to debate. In other countries, this is regarded as an especially American issue for evangelicals.

The ultimate question is whether you wish to live in a theocracy where there is no division between church and state.

It’s ironic that the use has used the argument of theocracies when planning military invasions of other countries. Particularly countries they deem as “fundamentalist” – when they do not regard their own views as such. The very “theory” of creationism is wrapped into an entire belief system. It is inseparable from that belief system and as such non objective.

As for birth being a miracle, I’m not sure I agree. Science seems able to explain the process pretty well. But this may be a semantic thing.

Defined broadly, my favorite quote about miracles comes from what is, to me, one of the wisest spiritual traditions on the planet, the non-theist, humble, wise thing called Taoism. Chuang-Tse, I think, was the one who said:

“The greatest miracle of all is that we are sitting here, talking.”

But I fail to see how anyone can prove that’s the result of Jehovah, Jesus, and company. And as soon as we start insisting it does, we go from “sitting here, talking,” to – sadly – “sitting here, fighting.”

Humility – intellectual humility – avoids that fight.

AMEN! Well said! And as Ms Davis says, it DOESN’T matter what you believe – EVERYTHING is a belief! We don’t go around saying you are stupid for believing in evolution even if its not the smartest thing to believe it. We only expect RESPECT for our beliefs, THAT’S ALL. You read in a book that we all came from a bunch of mud and we know that He made us in His image WITH LOVE. You go think about your MUD and we will get to know HIM with science ID-style! So are you with us or not with us? Understand Rocky? You can have science AND God or sit there with your evolution asking questions and feeling bad about yourself. I’m not saying that you are bad if you don’t believe in God and His Son but Corrie has been patient with you and given you the way. Maybe you should rethink your attacking Ms Davis and Corrie and Christians everywhere??? Wasn’t such a good idea now that you think about it huh?

Peace.